Those lists are important! We know how long it took to sentence SS members due to lack of such lists.
At least the ss had a convenient tattoo to help sort them out from the rest.
So you want to be able to sentence ICE agents to death?
Lick that boot harder.
We have plenty of videos naming and shaming cops who violate our civil rights, often times in deadly violations, and they’re all doing just fine and none of them faced anything more than sometime justice for the inhumane and civil rights violating actions.
It will be the same here, name, shame and make sure they never work in any position of power ever again.
ETA, yet another hours old troll account. To the block list you go.
I want inhumane behaviour dealt with accordingly, bit I am strictly against death sentences.
It is horrible that USA still makes death sentences in my opinion.
It is unforgivable, but mistakes happen everywhere.
There are better ways to punish.
I speak for most of the world here when I say, yes.
Right, so you want to execute US law enforcement personnel and defend foreigners instead?
Mate, just get gone. That shit doesn’t fly here, and you’re not going to change anyone’s mind.
Right, so unless you think ICE is literally the SS, you’re not welcome.
That’s the definition of an echo chamber.
Ice is literally the same kind of group as the gestapo yes
No no, you revealed yourself when you assumed that people who don’t agree with the existence of ICE want to “defend foreigners”. It’s nationalist shite, and it’s really old.
Edit: and yes, it’s an echo chamber. That’s why I’m here: so I don’t have to deal with people like you.“Defend foreigners”
Yes, people who broke into this country illegally, aren’t from the U.S. and shouldn’t be here.
What word would you prefer instead?
And yes, you just want an echo chamber of people agreeing with you about everything. That’s certainly something.
Lemmy absolutely is an echo chamber, no one will deny that. The question is, why are you here?
“Why are you here”
Why are you here? Why are any of us here? Why do you want an echo chamber?
ICE isn’t law enforcement. It is Trumps private thugs. Much like the SS in Germany.
No, they’re literally law enforcement.
The “law” they’re enforcing is Trump’s edicts. Immigration law as it’s existed for some time doesn’t call for this kind of action. Trump doesn’t get to write law, that’s for the legislature. He’s there to carry out and enforce existing law, not create it, not reinterpret it, not ignore it, and CERTAINLY not to gaslight the American people about it.
The way Trump treats law is literally un-American.
They can quit anytime
And illegals can self deport at any time.
So if ICE doesn’t stop enforcing immigration law, then what?
Refugees can’t leave when they want. Otherwise they would not be refugees. Also, ice prevents people from even getting their papers on top of arresting citizens.
And why should I care about what a bunch of pigs do? They can get real jobs.
“Can’t leave”
They absolutely can.
They wouldn’t pass through multiple safe countries otherwise.
“Their papers”
That’s called asking permission and coming in legally. Not breaking in and then asking permission.
“Why should I care”
Yes, I can see you’re not a fan of enforcing border laws.
Those countries are often hostile to. And yeah, I don’t like law enforcement that ignores out constitutional rights.
“Constitutional rights”
What are the two legal exceptions to due process when it comes to deportations?
Obama used one to deport 2,000,000+’illegal immigrants without traditional due process.
“To death” was your own addition there. Way to reveal yourself.
“Own addition”
The comparison was to SS members.
Should they be spent to a day spa instead?
Ahh yes, the only two possible options…
Considering a bunch of people have said Yes, the death penalty? What should happen to “SS members”?
Dude, you’re really bad at this. Are you familiar with due process?
Are you?
There are two legal exceptions to due process regarding deportations.
Obama used 1 method to deport 2,000,000+ illegals with no due process.
Trump is using both.
So you think they’re comitting horrific crimes against humanity on par with the nazis then?
They will be soon, I fear
SS started small as well
people forget the americans were using concentration camps waaaaay before the nazis
I hope they dont’ get that far.
Nope but apparently a whole lot of folks here do.
If you picked up a history book, you would know there isnt much of a difference of functions in what ICE is doing versus the Gestapo back in WW2.
Way to reveal yourself
If your police cover their faces, they are not doing good work.
Police have never existed to serve the populace, they solely exist to protect the capital of the wealthy.
Police are a Status Quo maintenence force. The status quo fucking sucks.
The whole masked officers thing really got me wondering how society would respond to a Batman like figure. I don’t think I realized bofore the ICE raids how absolutely horrible the concept of masked superheros was for a free society, even after consuming some media that tried to focus on this issue, like the Watchmen.
Et tu, Phoenix Jones?
Ah, I wasn’t even really thinking of Phoenix, but excellent reference, and he sounds like such a mess. To be fair though, most of what I know about the dude is from “The Superhero Complex” podcast.
I feel like a lot of people knew who Phoenix was though, and so he was at least accountable for his actions in most cases. ICE appears to be acting in a way to purposely avoid accountability.
It’s about time. The only government employee that should have their identities held in secrecy are CIA agents. The rest can f-off and every single US taxpayer should know who is on the damn payroll. Fuck the US version of the RSHA and NKVD.
CIA agents aren’t government employees.
Or so you’ve led to believe.
A lot of the confusion comes from the fact that the FBI refers to is personnel as agents, whereas “agent” means something entirely different to the CIA.
CIA agents aren’t employees of the CIA, but are people in other positions that are being used by the CIA. This can include informants, spies, etc.
If you don’t show a badge and have a warrant, you’re not an officer, you’re an armed assailant.
I genuinely do not consider that to be controversial.
Fascists should be afraid for their safety, as a general rule. When they’re not, it’s a problem. As we can see now.
For the record, fascists will always project that they are afraid for their safety. Playing the victim is how they gain power. When one of them is targeted, it doesn’t create fear to dissuade the rest, it empowers them to play it up for support.
The point is that we should MAKE them ACTUALLY afraid for their safety. If they’re playing victim anyways… make them actual victims.
As long as you accept that you are playing into their strategy to instigate a civil war which they’ve been working toward years, if not decades, sure.
Alternatively, we could opt to listen to experts on fascism, recognize the systemic issues that give rise to it (like economic instability and wealth inequality), make a concerted effort to address those concerns, win over the working class which the left has neglected for the last 60 years, and bring the temperature down for centrists thereby cutting off the primary weapon of fascism…
But we’ll probably do it the dumb way.
Edit: for the record, I’m fully convinced there are psyops going on here on Lemmy, and the people like you trying to push us further toward violence and civil unrest are either them, or useful idiots helping them.
It already is a civil war. One side thinks having the moral high ground means not having to show up.
What you’re suggesting is a shaky strategy for fighting standard GOP misbehavior two, three decades ago. Wake up and look around.
I’m not trying to be mean, but I do think you need to hear this: touch grass. This is a big deal to Americans, but it’s pretty much politics as usual for like 70% of the world. Recognize that the fact that we get to think it’s a big deal is part of our entitlement.
I get it, trump is testing limits, he’s got ICE rounding people up, he’s trying to deploy the military into states, he’s painting innocents as terrorists. And I’m telling you, it’s not popular. He doesn’t have the support to pull this off, he’s doing what he’s doing not because he’s strong but because he’s weak, desperate, and he knows it.
Right now, he desperately wants this to devolve into violence, because like any demagogue, he can’t be a functional politician, he can only fight invisible enemies. He’s trying to provoke a war in time for midterms. Don’t give him what he wants. Stand united in peace with the vast majority of people who don’t want this to continue.
MAGA is gaining ground against you every fucking day and has been for years with zero opposition.
People like you are the reason.
“I’m not trying to be mean.” 🤣 of course you’re not- you’re not capable of it. If you were, you might have a shot at being useful. I promise you nobody is horribly hurt by milquetoast “mean words” from a coward who won’t lift a finger to stop his neighbors from being kidnapped.
First off, Trump is one thing, but MAGA is losing ground. Source. As soon as trump entered office, the MAGA movement stalled and has started trending back down. This is because he’s been given the every lever, and as expected, he’s botching it.
Second, you’re interpreting what I’m saying in the way you want to hear it. Absolutely go protest, get naked and stand in front of a tank, douse yourself in oil and set yourself aflame on the whitehouse lawn, sound the alarm so that everyone hears through all the noise. And like always: defend yourself and those around you from criminals using whatever means you have.
But we are at the ideal time to appeal to MAGA. Look at all the Republicans breaking from him over the shutdown. MAGA is to the right what Occupy WallSt was to the youth before the rich steered it back to a left/right old/young thing. There are systemic problems, and people are seeing that targeting the “woke” isn’t going to solve it. They are soon going to be forced to demand working solutions. He can only blame Biden for so long.
Of course, nothing i say will convince some people. There are a class of horny idiots who desperately need to act on their frail emotions, give trump what he wants, and go out in the streets with MAGA to aggressively suck each other off. You are free to be in that group if you want, but know that you’re not helping anyone but yourself and the fascist movement. (Of course you and I both know that the only fingers you’re lifting are from your keyboard to downvote someone you disagree with 🤣).
ICE agents arent fascists. They are americans who want a high paying job. Its an awful job and only barely worth it with a six figure salary. If people took more of a stand against working there, they would raise the wages until people want to.
In a way its a good thing these people are mostly doing it for money, which won’t much matter in a civil war.
ICE agents arent fascists.
How did you decide that? All polling disagrees with you, so what do you know that we don’t?
WELL IF THE POLLS SAY IT THEN IT MUST BE TRUE! FANTASTIC!
Billionaires are just following the american dream, they found a high paying job is all. Its not their fault they did evil things along the way!
Come on y’all, let’s not pick on the poor fascists!
Are we talking about billionaires or ICE agents? ICE agents aren’t billionaires.
This is how I know you’re debating in bad faith
I dont think you know what bad faith means. Its definitely not when you think someones contradicted themselves.
I asked who we were talking about again because this post and conversation is about ICE agents, not billionaires.
Unless there are some billionaires larping as ICE agents, then I dont see how thats relevant, and I dont care to start off on some tangent for no reason.
If you think I’m wrong though feel free to explain why.
No, because you’re debating in bad faith
Again, I dont think you understand the term. Bad faith isn’t someone you disagree with.
Were talking about fascists…
Might as well be talking about nothing then, because your definition of who is a fascist surely won’t match mine.
Do you have any comment about ICE agents or this post?
There’s a reason why they hide their faces and want to hide their identities … they know what they are doing is wrong. They’re gambling on the idea that if their fascist government stays in place, they’ll be rewarded … but if their fascist government fails, then they can go back to normal society if no one knows who they are.
If what they are doing is justified, moral and can be easily defended, then they would have no need to hide themselves.
but if their fascist government fails, then they can go back to normal society of no one knows who they are.
It should be trivial for a theoretical subsequent competent government to identify these people, but I’ve just about lost all hope that anyone will face consequences for doing fascist shit.
They should be allowed to grow and change like anyone else. This thread is so full of hate I dont know how anyone here thinks they are an example of a “good” citizen.
If any of y’all ran the government, we would be so much worse off right now.
Oh noes, people are hating fascists! We shouldn’t let those fascist haters run the government, much better to let the fascists do it. Go lick some more ICE balls, you fucking rusty spork.
We can talk again when you grow up.
When ICE is violently attacking civilians, there’s nothing controversial about naming and shaming the fascists involved.
Controversial to whom exactly?
The ICE agents on that list, as well as the ones scared of being on future lists.
☝️
We need to publish home addresses, make them scared.
So there actually is a federal (felony) law against that, but not against sharing their names: 18 U.S. Code § 119. This is the most a website could legally get away with, at least for US Citizens. It may not apply to Ice List’s designer (Edit: Who is Irish and living in the Netherlands, which I believe is part of 14 Eyes), but I am not a lawyer.
Another amendment to make when we’re in power
And you foresee absolutely nothing bad happening if all the public officers’ addresses were made public?
if all the public officers’ addresses were made public?
if they don’t want to receive what’s coming to them, they can always quit
Are you, like, ten years old?
Imagine it’s 2021, Trump is president. All federal employees addresses become public. Trump does his “we’ll retake democracy” stunt and people storm the Capitol.
What do you think happens in all the cities where armed MAGA now have access to Democrat politician’s and federal workers home addresses?
Trump controls the FBI and NSA and the IRS. All of this has happened.
All of this has happened.
Yeah, I remember the bloodbath of 2021 when people were going door to door and shooting Democrat-aligned officials…
WTF are you smoking, mate?
“I want to publicly shame them into resigning, because they don’t wear masks for safety. They wear them because they know their neighbors won’t invite them to dinner anymore, that their children or their children’s friends’ parents won’t want them at a baseball game. They care about their personal lives, but not about their safety,” Skinner said in a telephone interview with EL PAÍS from the Netherlands, where he lives.
This is the way.
They are literally covering their faces because they are afraid on the public. They are normal people just like you and I. They need money to support their family just like you and I. Focusing on individual agents is wasteful and cruel.
If a civil war comes, people will need to be able to say they were wrong and switch sides, which means that ICE agents will in fact help save the country.
Being bigoted is not helpful.
(hyperbole for emphasis) hey guys, they were normal people like you and I. They’re just supporting their families! - You when talking about the workers at Dachau and Auschwitz
They were people, but let’s not pretend they were innocent. Shame is a great motivator, and would influence many ICE agents to stop what they’re doing, or at least behave better, I would argue.
Letting law enforcement conceal their identity is some literal fascist shit - that’s not hyperbole.
The rest of the world (where I’m from) is looking on with extreme concern.
Yeah things are rough, and then they won’t be and people will need to be able to move on.
If I was in another country though, I’m sure I would dismiss americans humanity too.
then they won’t be and people will need to be able to move on
Wtf are you advocating for here?
That law enforcement shouldn’t face repercussions if they’re breaking the law (or violating generally accepted human rights)?
No, ICE agents covering up their face, so they don’t have to face consequences, shouldn’t be able to just move on after the fact.
Are you allergic to the concept of accountability?
It’s absolutely bizarre that you are arguing for the humanity of Americans, when that’s not your position. Your argument is for the “humanity” of those within law enforcement wanting no consequences for their actions.
It’s very naive to think this isn’t troubling for EVERYONE in the US, not just the alleged foreigners (who, in many cases, are completely legally in your country and have done nothing wrong).
The US is a imperial nation, so I have every right to comment on your politics, as a vassal of the US.
Bruh, as much as I’d like to see you cry about how the leopards ate your face (when you inevitably face the consequences of this slide into fascism), I’d much rather see the US have some semblance of sanity. Because we’re just standing here with our pants down, entirely at your military’s mercy (Australia).
It’s about time we diversify our security partners, holy balls.
Read a book, learn some history, you made be troubled when you do.
If a civil war comes we need to know who isn’t trustworthy in leadership. This is a list of those people.
Your misuse of the word “bigoted” is disgraceful. These people chose to lock up other humans in cages to be shipped to countries with worse cages.
They can support their families by getting a real job and not being a class traitor.
Are we talking about ICE agents or leaders? I could have sworn this post was about the people on the ground who aren’t giving orders but taking them. I would hold leaders to a different standard.
No difference. They know what orders they’ll be following when they take the job. They are evil people who are relishing being able to exercise their evil as a career.
They are jobless people with families to support. Morals come after food for the majority of people. Or are we forgetting how awful it is in this country right now?
Hey, fascist. You don’t recruit “unemployed” people off the streets in an obviously politically biased recruiting blitz, arm them, and set them upon the general public incognito with NO training at all, even if you think their families need to be fed. All that means is that one side of the political spectrum is armed now.
That is absolutely no excuse at all. If I need money, is it okay to rob a bank, or steal deliveries off porches, or burglarize houses, etc.? I consider ALL of those things to be less immoral than kidnapping innocent people, and sending them to random countries to be tortured in prison for the rest of their lives. Or breaking up families, or sending young Americans to a foreign country because their parents brought them here when they were babies, etc.
No, we haven’t forgotten how awful this country is, and it’s primarily because people like YOU have turned away from the evil that is happening all around us. The solution is to stop it, not to ignore it, or make lame excuses for it.
I dont know, have you ever been that poor? If so, what high road did you manage to take then?
If ignorance is bliss, you must be an angel.
No I just live in reality, not in lemmy echo chambers.
Both shouldn’t be in any leadership capacity. As they have failed to recognize the value of human life and they would likely do it again.
All americans to some extent devalue human life. The entire economy is based on it. Whether you are ignorant of that fact or not makes a big difference. This is not an individual problem, it is a societal one. We won’t fix anything unless we treat each other like humans and communicate with each other in good faith.
People will have to live with the mistakes of their past, just like anyone else, but they should not be labelled as unredeemable or unforgivable.
Then the economy is broken. It is in fact a societal problem. Money shouldn’t exist and every human need should be freely offered and labor should traded for this opportunity. We wount fixes this until capitalism falls. We wount stop devaluing human life and we won’t treat eachother like humans as long as “the economy” exists.
People have to live with the mistake of their past but society shouldn’t not be able to take it into account. This is how we got Epstein, Jerry Sandusky, Harvey Weinstein, and Donald Trump.
If I read you correctly, you are saying we need a civil war and social breakdown to get rid of capitalism. I might agree with that, but if thats true then why doxx ICE agents? How is that helping the downfall of capitalism?
There is nothing normal about what ICE agents are doing. If they had a shred of humanity, they wouldn’t carry out such heinous acts.
Thats a lot of assumptions about why they are doing what they are.
What is being assumed?
That if they were human they wouldnt do what they are doing. At least you are more honest than most in this thread by actually saying out loud that you think ICE agents aren’t people.
If they weren’t nazis, they wouldn’t do nazi shit.
Cool, I’d like for them to be able to learn to not be Nazis anymore. Its nice that you grew up in a way that made it obvious, but some won’t learn until way later in life.
When did I say that? Quote me.
Thats how I interpreted what you said, its not a quote. Reread your own post if you would like.
Sweet.
Where is it?
Link in post body
