While I wouldn’t wish this on anyone, it’s amazing how self-destructive this is. Greta is an internationally famous activist. Flagrantly violating and abusing a person with world renown - along with dozens of other activists - is a radically stupid way to hasten international isolation.
It is well known by most in Israel that the country simply cannot function in isolation. It will lead to collapse. In this, they are giving the flotilla far more power to eventually overthrow the ruling regime.
They have done worse to other protestors and faced zero accountability:
They just assume Uncle Sam will bail them out, no matter what. They are not wrong, much to the frustration of a large portion of the US population.
Thats on borrowed time. Money to isreal is one of the only issues left and right agree with. Someone is going to take advantage of that eventually and isrela is gonna get disconnected from the US teet
I know you are probably American, so am I.
We need to stop calling the Democrats the “left” party. They’re not.
Isn’t it relative though? They’re left of the Republicans so they are the left most choice Americans have.
No because left means anti-capitalist. The Democratic Party is not anti-capitalist. Therefore, the Democratic Party is not a left party.
However, they are a neoliberal party. Which, when compared to the Republican Party’s existence as a fascist party, does certainly make the Democrats preferable. But just because they are preferable does not mean they are left
The
leftDemocrats and the right.The
leftDemocrats and the rest of the right.Politics are left, right, and whatever the fuck Democrats are doing.
The Americans are not the reliable partner they used to be.
Reliable enough, unfortunately.
I actually don’t think that’s true. One of the rare bright spots in Trump’s generally unbroken record of catastrophe is that he is so unpredictable, and generally gives so little of a shit what happens to anyone outside himself, that the chances of Israel suffering some kind of great consequence and the US not bailing them out as we always do are greatly increased right now I think.
Also, yes, I think this is possibly the greatest fuckup Israel could possibly have committed right now. It may be what finally turns the tide against them, after so many decades of nothing. Outside of literally nuking Gaza or Iran or something, I honestly can’t think of anything worse for them than physically brutalizing a universally popular Western media personality for literally no reason at all.
Problem is, she’s not popular with the type of people who vote for Trump. His demographic would take Israel’s side on this one.
We also have no evidence any of this happened. It is easy to make propaganda when we want to believe it.
The beating and flag kissing is sourced to another captive, and might be exaggerated, but her general mistreatment was reported by Swedish diplomats after speaking to her. It’s pretty credible, imo.
Do we have any sources that aren’t biased toward making her treatment look bad?
Respectfully:
Are you genuinely interested in exercising neutral skepticism? Or are you just arguing on the Internet against claims that run counter to your preferences for what you’d like to be true?
(Be honest.)
I sincerely believe that the world is a lot less extreme than what social media is telling us. Exceptions, yes, but those are exceptions. Most of the discussion that takes place anymore is driven by sociologically hacking us, done by interested parties to drive division and distrust. It happens on all sides. That doesn’t mean you should drop your support for peaceful protest, aid delivery, etc., but it does mean we should be aware of propaganda and manipulation that confirms our own biases. The effect of the rush to extremes is that we then create extreme situations. The world is getting uglier and uglier, largely driven by this problem.
Does this cut both ways? Because I agree with what you: we should not reflexively believe sensationalist claims because they reinforce our preferred view of the world.
But under the exact same logic, we also should avoid dismissing sensationalist claims because they contradict our preferred view of the world.
Being aware of the manipulation you mentioned, and the fact that forces are trying to manipulate you in both directions on this issue… do you have any credible reason to dismiss testimony by Greta Thunberg to a Swedish diplomat regarding the treatment she experienced?
Sensationalists claims stop being sensationalist when they are confirmed with objectively verifiable facts. That’s when claims should be accepted. Until then, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim.
Israel is a fucking terrorist country. IDF is a new SS. They are new Nazi.
For those of you doubting the claims for lack of evidence, stating that you’ll “wait for the facts” or evidence before allowing yourslf to be outraged—
Where is your outrage for the countless other people who were there who personally testified to being beaten, abused, and paraded around like trophies?
There are already multiple interviews with Chris Smalls, a black American labor organizer, who directly confirmed that he had been beaten, choked, packed like a sardine into a small cell, sleep deprived, strip searched, and completely brutalized by the Israeli navy and prison system.
Ask yourself—why does this need to have happened to the appropriately aged, white, European female on a 4k, live streamed or recorded feed with corroborating testimony by the Israelis and the national newspapers of the country of origin of the supposed victim—why is that the bar you’ve set for credulity?
What does that say about you or your reaction to the situation?
Wake. Up.
Fuck the details, fuck the squabbling over what constitutes “roughness” versus physical assault. Fuck the inclination to want to hear “the other side” of the story. Things are going horribly wrong in Israel/Palestine—in a place that we’ve all been told over and over is supposed to be demonstrably above reproach. If even half these claims are true—if even a single one of them is true—what GOOD is it preserving the supposed beacon of democracy in the middle east when they treat foreigners this way?
Even if you think these activists are mentally unwell, or menaces, or being performative, or just doing this for “selfies”—so what? We all know these activists are obviously not terrorists and at least some of them genuinely believe what they are doing. None of this justifies their treatment. Nothing justifies the richest and proudest countries on earth—however much you might agree with that claim—what GOOD is that if our prisons condemn people to absolute squalor and abandonment to the whims of their guards?
HOW is this any different from the indignity camps? These peoples possessions were seized as trophies , their clothes taken, their bodies crammed together like chattel. Do there need to be ovens for there to be discernable lines? Must you feel the radiant heat on your own brows before you’ll indulge the sensation that something isn’t right here?
Wake. Up.
Waiting for the facts is a pretty sensible move in most situations.
Those facts you were waiting for, btw:
“Greta Thunberg: I was tortured, beaten and starved by Israel” - The Telegraph, 15 October 2025
I appreciate you posting this but I think the news broke on that like week ago. https://www.reuters.com/world/greta-thunberg-alleges-torture-israeli-detention-after-gaza-flotilla-arrest-2025-10-07/ It seems she has since gone into more detail though
Agreed, or at least wait for Greta to tell us herself.
